Reality of phantoms and mind just among us, in some towns, even the devil was an
angel. The world has its rules of Nottingham. Some of us seek answers
to the rips and neonics. Join us as we venture and accepted
boundaries. Come to our night. Hey
folks, good evening and welcome to Phantoms Monsters Radio. Thanks for joining me
Now, um We had a bit of a screw up last week
I was trying to put Windows 11 in into the computer and it kind of knocked everything out
So, uh it took me most of the week to get everything back in. So
uh again, I, I apologize for last week, but we've got Tobias with us tonight and uh we'll be talking about his book
and about the Chicago Mothman. Uh But first of all, the Phantoms of Monsters Radio channel is made possible by you clicking on the subscribe
and like buttons and by you sharing our programming, uh Super chat and Super thanks
Donations are always appreciated and you can click the dollar icon located below the chat box
Um The Buy Me a Coffee link and banner also shown below
So thanks for your consideration. Now, I want to welcome all new members to the channel as well as first timers into the chat
Now, if you are listening to me for the first time, uh please like and subscribe to the channel
Uh set your notifications at the bell icon. So receive word when the new presentation is live or being posted onto the channel
And if you're in the chat and you do have a question, uh please use all caps
So tonight, I have Tomas Whalen joining me who's a 14 investigator who's been actively investigating unusual for over um for over a decade
The first several years of his investigative career were spent as a move on field investigator
And following that, he investigated independently prior coming the head writer and editor for the Singular for Society
Now, Tobias is a frequent guest on various podcasts and radio shows has written several books and contributed articles to periodicals on the paranormal as
has appeared on television and in documentaries and is often also often invited to speak at paranormal conferences and events
Now, he was featured in the series premiere of Expedition X and small towns
monsters, documentaries, Terrors in the Sky and on the trail of the Lake Michigan Mothman for his work investigating Mothman sightings around Lake
Michigan. Now he and his wife Emily have been involved with the Lake Michigan Mothman investigation since its advent in the spring of 2017
and published a book chronicling the experience the Lake Michigan Mothman high stranges in the Midwest
His 2nd 3rd book about unusual phenomena, strange Tales of the Impossible
And the Singular 14 Society's Yul guide to high strangers continue their work in investigating a variety of seemingly impossible events
Now, in uh the Singular 14 Society Tide guide to High Strangers
Tobias and Emily take you on a journey into the darkest part of the year
Winter has always been a time of magic monsters and legendary figures
Their stories are told and retold through generation across generations. But what if there are something
there was something more, some authentic human experiences that inspired these stories so often told around the campfires as much to drive
back the shadows as to provide warmth. So in the book, The Whalen's look at uh Christmas legends and compare them to modern anomalous phenomena
to see what similarities exist from sheep squats to Santa Claus. The Singular Fortune Society's yt guide to High Strangers covers
a wide variety of reported sightings that might represent a startling truth about the stories we tell
So Tobias, welcome to the show. Hey Lon, good to be here
Yeah, great to have you. Uh We haven't, I don't even know if we talked since we came back from Chicago
I don't know. But um it's, it's been a while. I mean, yeah
I mean, other than just kind of chatting online and messenger and stuff
it's, yeah, it's been a while. Yeah. Uh that's hard to believe
It's been over six months ago, isn't it? Yeah. Boy, I mean
Time Flies. It feels like we were just there. Yeah. It's, it's weird
So, tell us about the book, um, you know, it's that time of year
So, uh, let's talk, talk to the, the, the audience about it and tell us what's in it
Sure. So, you know, uh, this is AAA book that is probably self explanatory
uh somewhat based just on the, the title, you know, it, it kind of includes what I'm getting at in there
The Singular 40 In Society. You will tide Guide to high strangeness
But um you know, it's uh it's probably helpful to unpack that somewhat
you know. So what we were really going for was um we wanted to cover all of these
these weird Christmas legends and stories that don't necessarily get a lot of attention otherwise
you know. So I think like uh Krampus and the cat will goat
uh uh gorilla uh frau uh per and you know, those kinds of
of characters and of course, Saint Nicholas and Santa Claus and all that stuff. But
you know, that had been done, you know, like there are are other books out there that um that
that talk about the history uh of those, those figures. And so while that's still interesting
and I did include lots of, of historical facts and uh and
and data, it couldn't just be that it had to be more
right? And so something that has always fascinated me is the origin of these
these stories. And something I, I think you'll find much like when researching fairy lore
for instance, uh when you look into a lot of these, these Christmas legends and uh and the folklore around them
you'll see a startling resemblance to paranormal phenomena that's still reported today
Uh You know, there are myriad examples of that in the, the book
of course. But, um, you know, if, if I had to pick one uh off the top of my head
uh, you know, I would say looking at the, uh the, the wild hunt
for instance. Now this is something of course, that uh has long been associated with the
the tide season and it can take many forms, everything from uh ferry troops of underground dwelling beings
coming to the, the surface like in the, the, um legend of uh Asgard re or uh Odin leading
uh the, the spectral uh wild hunt with the uh the, the spirits of
of dead warriors, uh uh frau per uh leading her uh uh ethereal troop
of, of dead Children. Um, you know, they, they, they all have this
this commonality of supernatural figures leading uh troops of, of spirits and
and, and other uh supernatural uh figures, right? And what's interesting about that is so much of the stories told
about those uh phenomena, mirror uh paranormal phenomena still reported today. So if
you look at something like uh as God Andre, right? Like that's something where there is this supposed fairy troop roaming around
uh around Christmas time and you don't want to run into him because lots of things bad
you know, mostly bad could, could happen to you if you do
So, uh you might uh experience missing time, you might be taken away
Uh you know, these, these things that we still see, uh normally associated with things like alien abduction
you know. And, uh, and furthermore, in some of the stories told about this specific form of uh of
of wild hunt, uh there are home invasions. You know, one of the
the most popular stories involves this uh this ferry trip that basically takes over these
these people's house. And one of the things it really reminded me of was uh uh Whitley Strieber first
uh remembered experience with uh extra terrestrials, these or these, these otherworldly beings
Um You know, where he, uh he first noticed this, like this loud whooshing sound throughout their house
And um it was calamitous, right? Like there was, there was a sense of uh tumult
you know, like, and uh and then of course his house is invaded or his cabin rather up in
in upstate New York is invaded by these, these diminutive beings which in their own right
Are generally very similar, at least in, in uh the, the most general of terms with uh fairies and
and such specifically, you know, diminutive sort of underground dwelling ones. And so it's
uh it's fascinating to me to look at those stories and sort of wonder
well, what, what inspired those like, certainly they were told during the darkest time of
of the year as a form of, of entertainment. Certainly. But what if the inspiration for them is
the same inspiration we have for people telling those stories today that is to say
uh they could be based on some actual real life experiences. And
and if that's the case, then I think that uh these Christmas legends deserve to be paid more attention than just
um you know, as a AAA sort of trivial entertainment. You, you know
the, now my family is originally from Switzerland. And um several years ago I started
looking into some of the traditions uh that the town I was at my family was actually from
was near Zurich along the lake. Uh The town was Richardville and of course
you talk about Thermus uh as far as you know, the legend with Black Pete and Grampa and all that other stuff
Uh But they have a tradition there which I find fascinating. They have a Christmas turnip festival and what they do
they hollow out turnips, put lights in them and string them all over the town and people
come from all over the place to see these lighted turnips all
all, all throughout the town. It's bizarre. Uh I, I've seen some pictures of it
I mean, they like the whole town up with these lit turnips. It's just really weird
Wow. Like, do they, do they, they carve them, like, uh, like Jack O lanterns or anything
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. They get pretty good sized turnips and then they haul them out and then they
um, and put a couple of holes in it and they put a candle or a light in it and they string them up
That's the damnest thing I've ever seen that is, well, weren't, uh
weren't turnips the original uh Jack O'lantern because pumpkins are native to uh this continent
You know, they wouldn't have those in, in Ireland or any place. So
I think they used turnips before the, the, the tradition of, of uh uh Halloween actually came to North America
Um huh. I wonder, I wonder if there's some kind of, I don't know
it's so interesting. I don't know what I had to look that up. But, no
I, um, of course I was looking into the Grampa thing and all that
but then somebody had something come up about the turnip festival around Christmas and I'm thinking
what the hell are they talking about? And, uh, yeah, they carve it
They, they hollow out these turnips and mega lights out. I, I don't know
You know, it's, it, the whole area is, it's a farming community but it's a city and
you know, but, uh, yeah, it's, it's bizarre. So, I, you know
I guess if we, if we examined every little Berg in Europe we'd find all kinds of weird traditions
But, um, I just found that fascinating that, no, that's really interesting
And, and you're right. And that's something that, uh, that I actually noticed in my
my research for this, this book is, there are so many different iterations of
of the, the folklore surrounding this, this holiday, you know, Christmas and
and the, the uh will tide season. Um And it does vary like region to region
It could vary, village to village, you know. Um And so yeah
like, it's just, it's so interesting to see some of those, those uh localized traditions
like what you're talking about, you know, like now I'm gonna have to start carving turnips and
and hanging them up around here. I don't know, I don't, I don't
you know, I, I don't know if it's got some type of uh good luck symbolism or
or whatever. I, I don't know what it is but uh yeah, yeah, at the turnip festival
So it could just be, yeah, it could just be that um it's a convenient thing that uh that you can carve
out and, and light up, you know, because uh decorating your space with lights this time of year
I mean, that, that goes way back because it's the darkest time of the year
right? And so when uh people believed that the darkest time of the year also brought with it
Uh You know, ghosts and spirits and capricious fairies and things. Uh You would want to light your
your space up. You know, you, you would have feasts like you all where you would light bonfires and things and try to uh to
illuminate your surroundings as much as, as possible. So who knows if it has anything to do with like turnip specifically
Other than that, uh, we already know from Ireland that they are relatively convenient root vegetables that you can hollow out and
and put a candle in there and, and they'll light up. Ok. So, who knows
Mm. Well, you, uh, folks can go to your website and buy the book
right? Oh, definitely. So, of course, uh, you can go to, uh
to Singular for.com/books and, uh, you'll find a couple of buttons there if you do just under the
uh, picture of the book. Actually, the lovely, uh, cover drawn by my
my wife Emily. And, uh, yeah, you can go to buy it on Amazon
Uh, you can buy a signed copy from us if you'd like
Um, and, uh, and yeah, I, I hope people do. I think they'll
they'll really like it. Well, interesting. So, um, anyway, you know, we're
we've been looking into this, this Chicago Mothman, Lake Michigan. Mothman phenomena
Now it seems like it's been forever. Uh, you and I together have been looking at it since 2017
And your iteration of the, the new sightings. But, uh, this has really been going on for a long time
So folks, if you, if you do have any questions, please, uh use all caps
put it in the chat and I'll bring it up there. And I, I do wanna mention that the last time we were on
we had talked about some of the earlier settings from this year
but since that time, I think we've had five sightings. In fact
there was one in, in and I don't know how many of these
how many of these people did you talk to? The one in Pilson? Did you talk to that
that girl that saw the thing under the, um, the overpass. Let me think
I don't believe I was able to speak to her specifically. Let me actually
I'm gonna pull some of these up because, um, it would be helpful
I think to, uh, to be able to see him. Do you remember when that one took place
Like what year that was, it was reported recently but was it in, in older set
Yeah, she, uh she, it was an older setting. I think it was about two or three years old
Um, he uh had seen this thing but never really acted on it
But uh, yeah, first of all, she called me, she, she now
let's see, let me see here what she, you know, she said, I, I asked her to send me the information
She said, Lon, I just got off the phone with you this morning. Here's the location and
uh, where I saw it, um, it was a, uh, she said she was walking through the under
passed near South Laughlin Street and west and encountered a 7 ft tall winged humanoid
She said she had just parked her car to see her boyfriend at the time
which was in the Pilson community. Uh It was October 2019. I parked almost two blocks from this building from his building
It was Roy late and I was walking past the uh the under this bridge standing underneath
reminiscing. I saw a 7 ft humanoid with veiny bat like wings face towards the wall
not directly staring at me but just standing. I got super creeped out
So I started walking to where I needed to be. But when I look back
I know for sure that I saw something very strange. Now, she said a couple of years later
I remember seeing that creature and decided to do some research, turns out many people in Chicago and look
she didn't know anything about it. I had, you know, had seen similar just blocks away from there
So, yeah. Uh I had talked to her and uh very fort right witness
Uh she seemed to be affected by the sighting. She, she literally moved out of Chicago right after that
And I asked her, what was that? Citing the reason why she said
well, I contributed to it. So, uh, I don't know, but it
it did seem like a very interesting sighting and, uh, I, I do believe she saw that thing
Sure. Yeah, I mean, that's, that's fair enough. You know, what, what is really interesting to me about this
this particular sighting is that word reminiscing. She describes this, this creature as standing on under this bridge
and, and she's saying that the creature looked like it was reminiscing
right? Yeah. Yeah, that's what she meant. That's, that's such a uh
you don't know, way to describe that. It's an odd word. Well, I don't think we've ever had anybody say that before
have we? No, I'm just picturing Mothman and, you know, and he's kind of standing under this bridge and
you know, maybe you smoking a cigarette just kind of staring into the distance
Um II, I don't mean to like make, make fun, but I mean
it's just such an unusual way for somebody to, to describe this
this creature. So I wonder, um I just, II, I wish I could get a little more
more detail to kind of try to suss out maybe exactly what the
the, the witness meant because, well, I, I think we both know that a lot of witnesses struggle to find the words to describe
their experiences, you know, because they are so powerful, you know, and they're so weird like they're so far outside of people's
understanding. So I wonder if, if this is one of those cases where the creature just appeared strange or maybe
uh she was sort of struggling to make sense of it and
uh, and, and applied this, this very human emotion right to this creature because we've seen that plenty of times too where people will
sort of anthropomorphize these, these creatures, whatever they are and um, and sort of project uh a human
emotion or, or motivation, you know, try to make sense of what's going on
which is only natural, you know, like we try to make sense of these things. Right
So, but, uh, yeah, that's, that's an interesting one. It's like when people compare it to the Jeepers Creepers monster from the films
or what, it's interesting that people use, uh what they're familiar with for the descriptions that Jeepers Creepers description
We've heard dozens of times from, from witnesses. That's, that's come up quite a bit
Uh Let's see, we've got that, um, Shayna and uh and Barbara down in Rockford
I think they compared it to uh Marcus from Underworld, uh which I'm not terribly familiar with
but apparently he is a large, it's a vampire, scary. It's a vampire thing
So similar to Jeepers Creepers probably. And, uh, what was it? It's pretty bizarre
It is. I thought there might be a, a third one, but I, I can't think of it right now
I'll probably think of it later. But, yeah, no, it, it, it, it does happen because again
like we were just talking about uh people really struggle to try to
to describe this stuff and, and, and they end up trying to relate it to
to something familiar. So a character from AAA movie is a lot easier than
than trying to come up with the, the words to, to really describe this impossible thing you saw
Well, we got a bunch of questions. So let's just go ahead and start widowing this down
This is from Robo 1776. Um, has anyone expressed or had experienced physical contact
accidental or otherwise with the Mothman? What do you have to say about that
Sure. Well, the, the case that comes to mind immediately for me
uh, was from Waukegan in the, the 19 seventies and, uh, this actually came to me from the
the witness's daughter, uh, the witness unfortunately had, had passed away, but
uh, but his daughter came to me and, uh, and wanted to tell me about what had happened to her dad
And so, uh, she told me about how one night he had
he had gone out and it was pretty late and, uh, he needed to go
uh, help his friend, uh, jumpstart, his car, his car battery had
had died. And so her dad heads out and, uh, he ends up going to this relatively isolated parking lot with not a lot by
it. I think there were just AAA couple of uh, like taller silos and things
And, uh, and as he's out there, he's helping uh his friend
you know, get started jumping his, his battery and he said, uh all of a sudden he felt this feeling of fear
And so it just came, it, it just came over him. And so he starts looking around and when he does that
he sees this, this winged being, this creature up on top of one of these
these silos and it's, it's got these red eyes and, uh, he's not gonna stick around at
at this point like he and his friend decide that the car can wait
they're gonna get the hell out of there. And so they, they jump into the man's car and
and take off and I guess this thing swooped down at them and
uh, and followed and, uh, and, and scratched his car up, like started attacking his car on the way out
And, um, and the, uh, the, the woman with whom I spoke
uh said that, uh, you know, he, he had come home and he was obviously very visibly shaken and
uh, and he had told his story and she had seen the scratches on his car and
and uh, and everything. And so obviously, she took it very seriously
Um And it wasn't until, of course, we started publishing these reports from other witnesses that she
she saw that somebody else had experienced something similar to what her her dad had and decided to
to finally come forward. But, um, yeah, that's one of the few cases involving some kind of physical
contact that I'm aware of. I don't think there have been a ton
So I don't want people to think that this, uh, Keegan story is representative
But, um, it, it has, it has been reported at, at least once
Yeah, I had a, um, and this was from 2015 where a gentleman and it came
it came third hand. I mean, it was a friend of his, his parents were literally attacked by this thing as they were driving in
Chicago and, uh, they claimed that it was following them home and attacking the car and
they just tried to outrun it and went the back way to get home
And when they got home, they looked around and it was still daylight
but Ivy was getting later in the evening and, uh, they got out of the car and the woman stepped
out of the car and this thing attacked her from behind and scratched her back and let the pretty deep laceration
In fact, I had to go to the hospital and have it closed up. I, I just imagined what they told
told the doctor, you know, uh, but he didn't, you know, he didn't know that
but it came from a friend of his and, um, I don't know that that's really the only
only physical contact that I had received from anybody and I, I didn't
honestly, I didn't even put it on the map. I didn't put it as part of the list but it was something I
I figured, well, if I, uh, if something similar to that happens then I'll put it up there
But, you know, this is the, this is one thing about this phenomenon for the most part
uh, especially since 2017 is that we're just not seeing much physical aggressiveness
Uh, they can bluff charge sometimes, but it's very minimal. Uh, they just scare the living hell out of people as far as actually
making physical contact. It just doesn't seem to happen. Sure. Well, you know
using that, uh, that Waukegan citing as an example. Um, I have no doubt that if that
that, uh, that thing, whatever it was wanted to hurt this guy wanted to
to actually ambush him and his friend, it, it definitely could have
they had no idea that it, it was there. I think that
um, at least the way the, the story was told, the way it sounds
Um, it's, uh, it's more likely that the, uh, the fear was something imposed on them
It almost feels like the fear was projected onto them. Um, because maybe the thing wanted to scare him away
maybe it didn't want to hurt him. You know, I, I think that if, if there was some
uh, intent to harm that we would see people being injured but we're
but we're not, you know, it's just not happening. Hm. So let's see here
Um, that's the old one. This
next one from whack tackle are Mothman sightings usually reported with a sulfur smell or corpse smell
Well, I, I can tell you that. Isn't that just, isn't the case? The only
the only odor that I can remember and I think it happened on either two or three occasions was an ammonia smell
Uh, am I right about that? Tobias? Yeah, I, you know, I don't believe we have received a lot of
reports of, of strong smells. Uh, there are some things to take into account there though
Uh, I suppose, um, the first one being often sightings take place in
in cars, you know, in, in motor vehicles. Um, and so if there was a strong odor
you, you might not notice it. Uh, the other is some of the
uh, a good number of the, the sightings are not, uh, super close
you know, people are, are at some distance. Uh, however, even in those sightings where
uh, witnesses report being, um, you know, in, in point blank range really with
uh, these things, we're not getting a lot of reports of, of unusual smells
you know, not, not sulfur or, or anything similar. It's a good question though because that is
uh, that is reported in, you know, a good number of, uh
of weird creature sightings, you know, Bigfoot uh, you know, dog man
that, that kind of thing, but it's not, it's not something I recall seeing associated with these winged humanoid sightings
Yeah. Ok. The next question, savage Grammy had Mothman ever been spotted inside
homes or mostly outside. Uh, I, I think they've been mostly outside
I mean, um, I, you know, I have had people contact me and said they saw them in buildings in some point but
and I had no other sighting. Not necessarily those in, in Chicago
but in other places just like point, pleasant. I mean, some of those that were seen inside in the TNT plant in other places
But, um, in Chicago that's been fairly rare. Yeah, true. Um, you know
I, I can think of one off the top of my head and this was a woman and her daughter in Madison
Wisconsin a while back. Uh, it's a couple decades ago and, uh
and they had a sighting just off the Belt line, um, near Seminole Highway and
uh, the, the daughter was, was pretty young and, uh, so she didn't really see the
the creature but her mother did and, uh, it had a huge impact on her
She described sort of the, the typical Mothman experience of, of seeing this
uh, this large black, uh winged red eyed creature that scared the crap out of her
And, uh, and later she was at their apartment and she went downstairs into their laundry room and
uh, and while she was down there, she said that she saw the same thing
uh, lurking about in one of the storage areas. Um And so that is
yeah, that to me is the, is the only inside report other than what you already mentioned
like the point plus and stuff because you're right, you know, that was being, uh
uh, reported in the, the, the, the TNT area and specifically buildings out there
But, uh, but yeah, you know, with these, these newer sightings, um
you know, in the, the Chicago and, and greater sort of, uh, Midwestern Great Lakes region
Yeah, that's really, that's the only sighting I, I can think of that. That would have been inside
Yeah, I'm trying to, I'm looking, I'm trying to, I don't think, I don't think we had any others
Interesting. Ok. Next question. Can squatch are, um, the airports still telling employees not to talk about the Mothman sightings
Well, I, um, I, I did talk to my confidential informant about two months ago
Uh, this individual is a supervisor with one of the airlines and
uh, they told me that the citing rep and people talking about it has
has kind of lessened a bit. But, um, un unless people are just scared to death because they really
they really clamp down on people. I mean, there were people coming to
to me and I know to Manuel and saying that they were, there were issues and that they were being threatened with their jobs and
such. But no, this, this, uh, this individual who I have been talking to now for almost two years has
uh, did tell me that the, the reports have lessons. Um, so I don't know
what's, that's about? What do you think? Uh, you know, I, I don't know what to think honestly
Uh, I, I kind of struggle with a lot of the, the o'hare stuff because I haven't been able to
to verify much of it. And so, um, you know, II, I trust you
of course. And, and we've worked together on enough cases and I have
uh, and we've communicated with enough of the same witnesses where, uh
you know, if you generally speaking, if, if you say you talk to somebody
I, I believe you but, um, a lot of those other o'hare reports
um, they've just never been able to, to be verified. So I, I don't know
I can't say with any confidence, um, how many people were being
you know, threatened with, uh, with unemployment or, uh, if, if anybody was honestly
I'm, I'm not saying it, it, it didn't happen but, um, but I
I don't know that it, that it did, you know. So, uh
I, I do know it has, has happened now, I don't know if it's specific
I, I, this person who I've been talking to did mention that employees have we're told
Um, and I did talk to a gentleman who, who was a former pilot and knew several people who worked at o'hare who told me
and I posted on the blog who told me that, uh, there
there were repercussions with some individuals who made reports. So, um, I don't know
You know, I, I don't know. I, I, but it, it, it's interesting that we haven't had any reports out of the Harrisons
January. So, uh, you and I haven't received any and, uh, Manuel has kind of taken a backseat
Uh, he's got other things going on so we haven't been able to
uh, get anything from o air, but we've still gotten some reports
So, uh, yeah. Oh, that being said, Brian mcglade
any more reports from police or firemen? No, uh, the supposed sightings of the firemen
at o'hare was kind of the last ones we got, uh, I haven't received or talked to any police officers since then though
We have had a lot of police officers come forward. Uh, we've had police officers who are on duty and so are retired police officers
uh, that had, had seen things and, uh, had talked about it
So, uh, but recently, no, we haven't received anything. Yeah, nothing, nothing super recent
Um, one of my favorite, uh, reports actually came from a retired Chicago officer named
uh David Ramos who was willing to go on the record about his experience
Um, you know, I, I was able to verify his, uh, employment. He was a 15 year vet of the uh the Chicago Police Department
And uh yeah, his sighting was when he was a, a kid back in 1971
And he said he saw this thing by the uh the, the north branch of the Chicago River
Um And uh that's one that's, that, that's always kind of stuck out to me and
and I wish it got more attention frankly because it's, it's such an
an interesting sighting. What, what he describes is fascinating and on top of that
um, you know, he is a, a credentialed policeman. Like you can
you can verify that self. Uh, and so if, um, if, if that means something to you
if, if that lends him more credibility then, you know, it's, uh, it's, it's an important detail but we don't have a lot of
uh, well, anybody like that who's actually willing to put themselves out there and attach their name to a sighting as far as I know
he might be the only one actually, uh, who's actually gone on the
the record and is, has a verifiable service record. Um, and so
you know, yeah, that's, that's, that's interesting, you know, because you, you look at people like that and
um, you know, he has a reputation like he has a lot to lose and it's only because he retired and had since moved to
Florida that, you know, he decided, well, screw it. I'll go ahead and talk about this
Like who cares? Like, what do they get? What are they gonna do to me? Now if people in Chicago are laughing at me while
I live in Florida, whatever. So. Well, of course, we had the sighting in
in, in 2017 in the Auburn section of the city uh where there was a crowd of people and two police officers apparently saw this
thing and then the one contacted us. Uh, and I, I filed a foyer
I think you filed a foyer. Uh Nothing. The only thing we got was they had no record of it
But, um, the way I verified that was because somebody who was in the crowd came forward a couple
of days later with me and told me that. Yeah, that, that actually happened
So, um, yeah, so. 00, ok. Yeah, that
one is, uh, it's, uh, it's, it's a contentious case, of course
because there is that missing police report and, uh, there are a couple ways to explain that
you know, of course, the first one being that it's, it's made up and the
the second one being that there is some kind of uh, uh conspiracy to
uh, to hide the, the phenomenon, you know, and, and people can believe whichever of those they
they like, I think. But, um, you know, it is, II I don't blame
I wouldn't blame anybody for looking at that and finding it suspicious
Right. And so while it's, it's, it's an interesting case. I don't think it's
it's one of the, the best examples we have, you know, uh
in terms of, of, of overall credibility. I mean, we, we, we've both spoken to
uh, like directly with, um, with, with witnesses that are willing to
to put themselves out there and have verifiable, you know, sort of
uh, details and, and, and evidence and things. Um, so, yeah, it's
it's, it's, it's interesting sighting. But, um, but that missing police report is
is gonna haunt it forever. Hm. Absolutely. Uh, I see Marlo Snyder
people always report bat like wings. Do you get any reports of feather wings
We did earlier, um, we had the sect toid wings and we had the owl man settings with like wings
like faces. Occasionally we will get one. Um, I can't remember the last time we got
one with, with the wing feathers, but we have received them. Um
but, uh, early on we, we had a, uh, we had a most
actually, most of the ones that, other than maybe one or two that came directly from moveon originally were of
of feathered wings or insecto wings. Yeah, definitely. I, I think the
um, let's see, maybe two out of the three of the 2017
uh, spring moon sightings that sort of kicked off things that year were
uh, described as birdlike. And then the third, I think, was described as more of a giant bat and
um, and it's, it's been split relatively evenly or at least it was for some time
It, maybe it's leaning more towards bat like now. Um, I think that a lot of people are sort of describing a general shape of
the, the, the wings. Um, and I've had people who have described bird wings as
uh as looking bat like and it's been verifiable that what they saw was a bird
So, take that for what it's worth. Uh you know, some people have described feathers
sure, some people have described uh hair, some people have described something that they weren't sure if it was feathers or hair
Uh And so I think it's, it is understandable to see some level of variation
in those descriptions, right? Like I, I think it's possible that even if one person says birdlike and one person says bat
like what we're really experiencing is the the normal human difference in perception that you would expect
from from multiple eyewitnesses. Yeah. Um Jose
Sanchez could both man be the leftover reptilian from the dinosaur era
Well, iii I really don't see any evidence of these bill a relic of some type
Uh You know, we've got theories about where these things come from
how they manifest and you know, but it's nothing that's proven. Um I don't know
What do you think about that? Tobias? Uh Yeah, I mean, anything's possible
right? But there's no specific evidence. I think that would point towards that being
true. So, um, you know, uh everything is fair game right now
I think we can speculate uh about any potential origin. And uh and they'd all be equally
true because we don't actually have any idea right now. But um in terms of likelihood
in terms of, of any evidence to point to that, um not really
And I think the main issue for me is if you're talking about like a
a relic species, if this is to be something like a cryptid
uh you know, that is to say, uh uh some sort of biological undiscovered animal species
then there are a lot of uncomfortable questions. We have to start asking ourselves like
well, first and foremost, how does it fly? Its wingspan isn't nearly big enough for it to be able to fly
Uh What does it eat? Uh There's no evidence of, of predation that needs to be accounted for in any existing animal species in these
areas. Uh You know, like if there was some relict species kind of hiding out
it should be eating something and as big as it is and as big as the breeding population would have to be for it to
exist. There should be an appreciable number of, of animals being noticeably eaten in these areas and there's not
Um And so, yeah, and then, and then there's the matter of habitat like where is it living
Um, something that size again with the, the breeding population necessary for it to exist
Uh There's no place for it to really live where it, it would be unnoticed in
in these areas. And so everything kind of points away from a
a natural biological explanation. And so, um, pretty much anything that relies on it being in an undiscovered animal
species to me, um, at this point, uh everything kind of, of contradicts that
Well, if this thing was indigenous and spent its time on or airplane
you would think it'd be at least some missing pets and stuff coming up or we'd be hearing something about that
Uh, and we haven't heard anything like that at all. So take it for what it's worth
I guess. But, uh, you know, they don't seem to be feeding while they're here
Yeah. True. Uh, that's, that's another good point. Uh, you don't really get
uh, reports of, you know, any kind of predatory behavior. You don't see people reporting watching
Mothman, you know, uh, eat a bird out of the air or anything like that
You know, there just doesn't seem to be that kind of behavior present
Mm. Ok. Race van. Uh, Lon, have you or any of your team talked to any of the people that worked at the airport that
saw them off, man. Uh, I, I did, I did briefly talk to
uh, the air traffic controller and I did talk to one of the pilots briefly but honestly
I'd say 95% of what came out of the airport came through Manuel now
Um, why, why people weren't, or why we weren't getting access to that
I don't know. But, uh, you know, it's, it's been a contentious point from the very beginning with us
Um, I didn't want to make a whole lot about it but the whole airport thing
I mean, they're, they're interesting accounts. They're, but we're just not getting
we're just not getting enough to justify a lot of those sightings
And we, you and I both kind of backed off on a lot of that. Oh
definitely. Um, you know, there, there comes a point where you have to consider your own credibility and whether
or not you want to lend it to something that doesn't have the evidence to
to support its reality. You know, and so when it comes to those o'hare sightings
unfortunately, the vast majority of them simply haven't been verified. And so I can't sit
here and tell you that they didn't happen, but I also sure as hell am not gonna sit here and tell you that they did
And I'm not going to say with any confidence that, uh, that
that they, they did, you know, um, I've spoken to exactly one person
uh, his name was Daniel. Uh, and he said that he worked in the
uh, the cargo area and he saw, uh, you know, this large winged red eyed being while driving out to meet some
friends after work, I think he was gonna meet him for a drink or something. And so he was driving along
uh, West Higgins after, excuse me, after, after leaving work. And, uh
and he said he saw this thing, uh, standing in this large grassy area behind this
this tall fence and he could kind of judge its size based on the height of this fence
And so, you know, he thought he was seven or 8 ft tall. And
um, you know, I, I spoke to him directly and, uh, you know
he, uh, he seemed as authentic, I think as, as you could imagine
under tho those circumstances, you know, and, um, he, uh, he gave me a map of the area and sort of drew on it where
he said he saw everything and so I didn't have any reason or that is to say I have no evidence
that, uh, that what he said was not representative of his experience
So as far as far as I could tell without, without any evidence to the
the, the contrary, um, what I like to do is I will approach a case is though what the witness is telling me is their
authentic experience. And so everything that was verifiable that he was able to
that he shared with me was, was verified. And so that was
that was the one case that I, that I have from o'hare where I can say
hey, maybe this guy actually saw something, uh, everything else and some of the stories get pretty wild
Um, they're just for something as, as bizarre as some of them are when you start talking about
you know, government interference and, and people being hushed and everything. I'm sorry
I need more than second or third ha, like third hand accounts all coming from
from one person, you know, like, and I don't think that's unreasonable and it's not meant to be offensive to anybody either
For instance, if, uh, if I were sharing stories and, uh, and
and they were all second or third hand and somebody was like
hey, I don't believe any of this, I'd be like, you know what, I don't blame you
Like, that's a perfectly reasonable stance to have. Um So, yeah, I mean
that's, that's kind of where I have to come down on most of these o'hare sightings right now
Well, I mean, we gotta be honest, uh, you know, first of all
we did film an episode of documentary that is going to be coming out eventually
Um And you and I, and we, we, we made it clear we were not going to talk about
the o'hara and, uh, you know, because we just did not have any evidence to back up any of that because we talked to very
few people. Now, I have talked to people who've seen these things around o'hara
you know, Benson and, and, and, uh, Rosemont and other areas. Absolutely
But as far as actual people at the airport, I have talked to very few
Um, in fact, uh, I, I did have one guy, uh, let's see
we had the 12, I had three people I talked to that saw it on or reported seeing it at o'hare
And, uh, the one was a gentleman who was actually got pushed back
told to get back into his car by one of the security people. After he
uh, several of those cargo people had seen this being and there were like eight or nine vehicles that showed up when this thing was
reported and he happened to be driving in the area because he was leaving work
He was working at the, at o'hare and he got out and
and pulled out his phone and he was told to get back into the car and to get out of there and I talked to
him. So, um, and of course, like I said, I had the one lady who I've been working with
uh, who's a supervisor who told me that people that worked for her had been telling her
uh, that they, um, that they have seen and I do believe her because I know her brother and
um, but they, they don't want to report it. So I don't think she was too
I don't think she really wanted to be part of the actual reports herself
I'll be honest with you. But, um, yeah, Yeah. So, there you go
So, uh, you know, folks, when, when this thing does come out
you can be assured that there are gonna be settings that we can verify and
uh, for the most part. And, uh, yeah. So, and I, that's
I, I tell you, I'm, I'll be honest with you, we're not really done with it yet but
uh, and we're not gonna, we can't really say a whole lot, but it's, um
I think it's gonna be a very good production. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah
Uh, I agree wholeheartedly. I, I think people will, uh, will be very interested to see what
um, what, what we've, we've come up with there. But you're right. We really shouldn't talk too much about it
uh, yet. So that's a, that's about as, as far as, as, as we can go
Yeah. And, uh, but it's, I, I, I'm quite sure if people are gonna like it but
um, I just want to put that caveat in there because when they do
when they do talk about it, the airport is not gonna be a part of much of it
Uh, there's gonna be some mentions of it but I don't think there's gonna be anything beyond that
Uh, but they are gonna have witnesses who we have personally talked to. So
uh, and people you have in person as well. So. Absolutely. Yeah
I know. I, I think that, uh, when it comes to o'hare, uh, well
in in that particular instance, just like II, I basically just said the same thing II
I already said tonight. So, and that I have been saying for
for some time now. So it shouldn't be, shouldn't be any surprise to
to anybody who's, who's ever heard me talk about it at, at this point
So, well, you know, it was, it was, you know, it was one of the things I
I figured that we should say tonight. So uh make that caveat
So, you know, if anything does happen in a hair that we can get some real
real tangible and evidence and even though it may be anecdotal, um we will come forward with it
But um I would love that. Yeah. Yeah. If, if you work at o'hare
if you know somebody who works at o'hare, uh have them contact us
have them reach out. We respect confidentiality, you can be anonymous. Uh As long as as we can
you know, verify your employment, um which again will be kept completely secret
You don't see us ever out like uh out here outing witnesses that never happens
Lon and I both have impeccable records as far as maintaining uh uh witnesses
trust and confidence. So, yeah, I mean, if, if you've ever even been tempted to come forward with a story like that and you know
something about o'hare, you can trust us, you should, you should reach out
Ok, next question. Uh piggy in the middle are there, they actually flying or
or they, they somehow define gravity. Well, I, I, that's kind of a loaded question
We, we don't know they're flying. I mean, there are, people are seeing them in the air and
but many times it seems like they, they had propulsion abilities that are just not natural
I mean, they're supernatural basically. They, you know, even when I had my encounter in Pennsylvania
the thing didn't flap its wings, it just literally took off. And that's very similar to what we're getting in
in a, in Chicago now. Uh, sometimes people see them actually flap their wings
but for the most part, these things seem to defy any physics
I mean, you know, what do you think about that Tomas? Sure
I, well, this is uh part of the, the point that I, I had brought up earlier where if you look at the dimensions as
described it, it shouldn't be possible for these, these things to fly because you're talking about something
you know, between six and 8 ft tall with only a 12 to 15 ft wingspan
Well, that's not enough wingspan that even if it had hollow bones or something
it shouldn't be able to fly with, with those dimensions. And so
um, yeah, I mean, if, if, if we're talking about the difference between uh flying using
you know, normal uh winged flight mechanics, right? Like just normal locomotion
Um, then no, II, I don't suppose, I think it is flying that way
I think it, it must be in, in defiance of, of, of what we know about physics
Uh, and, and that's how it's, it's flying, whether that's manipulating gravity or
you know, using telekinesis or we can only speculate. But, uh, no
be because of the seeming impossibility of it, it flying, uh, using any sort of normal means
Um, yeah, I would, I would assume that there would likely be some paranormal aspect to it
Yeah. Uh, there, there is one, there is one case that I
I do want to talk about. I mean, we got it back in September of
um, along Camp Pine Woods road, that roadway. Uh, yeah. And, and you and I both looked into that
uh, where the, um, it was near the Des Plains River just northeast of o'hara where the woman was driving
and saw the thing standing on the side of the road. Uh, you talked to her as well, didn't you
Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Um, that was an interesting one. She went to pick up some pizza or went to a chicken place
or something. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And she was, um, she was on her way out and
uh, and she had had sort of a, a brain fog or something like she was distracted but it was more than that
like she just felt out of it. Right. And, um, yeah, that's
I mean, that's, that's so interesting because, well, I I do know that I got a couple of people contact me
Bye and I had a couple of people contact me and just say to that area where it was seen at has a lot of
activity that happens there. Um So, I don't know, I mean, I mean
she was pretty, she was pretty profound about it but uh she didn't know what it was
I mean, she, you know, she drove by and she said it was just standing on the side of the road
She didn't know what the hell it was. But, uh, she described it basically the same of what
what everybody else has been. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. No, she, she, she definitely did and it was definitely impactful
you know, like you could tell, like, ii, I spoke to her directly and
and, and, and I know you did too and, um, it certainly seemed as though she had experienced something and
uh, the description she gave, uh, generally matched, you know, what, uh what other
what other credible people had been saying that, that, that they had seen
which was certainly interesting. And, uh, and that weird, that weird brain fog that she was talking about was
was interesting. You know, I've often wondered if there is some, some importance to the
the correlation we find in these sightings between people being kind of distracted
you know, doing things like driving or just like, out sort of aimlessly
you know, going for a walk or something and uh and seeing these beings as though maybe uh being in a sort of uh semi
altered state of consciousness makes it more likely for whatever reason for you to have this
this kind of encounter. And so, you know, maybe if she had been been suffering from um from some kind of brain fog like that
it just put her in the right state of mind to have this, this kind of experience
Mm uh Let's see here, Christine Murphy, so many cryptids everywhere at most of every
port. Unfortunately, that's the case. But people are, you know, I'll be quite frank with you
We know we know for a fact that there's a lot of settings in and around the Chicago area that we're just not getting
But the fact that we do have as many as we have I think is a testament to people wanting to know what is really
going on. So um I mean, what do you think about that
Oh, in, in terms of the, the sightings that, that we're receiving like the the number of them
Um You know, it's, it's, it's a complicated issue because you have to wonder um how many
sightings are going unreported. Like for instance, the most common uh narrative that I'm given by
by witnesses surrounding their experience just after having this kind of sighting is that uh it's very powerful and uh it's
it's, it's impactful. They want to share it, you know, we're social creatures
Right? And so they will go to a loved one, could be a close friend
could be a spouse, a parent, a sibling, whatever. And they wanna get this off their chest
you know, and they, they want to talk to somebody about it and so they'll talk to this person that they feel like they should
be able to trust implicitly and the reaction they receive most often is to be laughed at
you know, they, they get made fun of and then they don't ever talk about it again
Uh, because they don't think anybody else has ever seen anything like this. And it's only when they find somebody like me or lawn or
or anybody, you know, watching or listening to this, uh, who, who might actually take them seriously that they will talk about it
You know, I remember talking to, uh, this guy Gerald and, uh
but he was in an old man when I talked to him several years ago and he wanted to report a sighting that he had
seen in, in 1957 when he was only a teenager. And he said to me that he was glad he was glad that he had
found me. He was glad that he had seen this article that I had written
So he knew that somebody else had seen something similar and so he could come forward and report his sighting to me before he died
which is, is, is pretty morbid but it makes, it, it makes you think
right. Like how many people are there who have taken these experiences with them to their grave because they didn't think
that anybody else had ever seen anything and they were just going to get made fun of if they talked about it
you know, I'm, I'm guessing it's probably quite a few now. Mothman is
uh, is well known to, to, to you and I, right, but outside of our weird circles
nobody knows who Mothman is. If I, if, if, if I asked any
well, if any of my grandparents were still alive and I, and I were to ask them who Mothman was
they wouldn't know, um, nobody in my family would know if they weren't related to me
Right. So, most people have no idea that this stuff exists and so they don't talk about it unless they find somebody like us
Um, and so I've always thought that when it comes to things like
like quote unquote flaps, you know, I, I don't know how much importance I would give them because I
I think what we're dealing with isn't an issue of increased incidents
I think it's an issue of increased reporting where you get a
a well publicized report that leads to many more reports. And I think that's what we're seeing in Chicago versus other areas around Lake Michigan
and really other areas all over North, uh, uh, America. And, and
and all over this, this continent, right? Is that um it's not necessarily that there are more sightings here there
The only thing we can say for with any certainty is that there are more sightings being reported here
Uh because I think weird stuff happens everywhere and I think it happens about evenly everywhere based on
on what I've seen after having done this for, you know, 15 years or so
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Let's see if we got any last minute questions here
Brian mcla, Carlos Cassata reports. Mothman, like being in one of his books
I don't know, I don't remember seeing that anywhere. Do you know anything about that to no
Who, who was that again? Carlos Castaneda? Oh, ok. Huh. No
I don't recall seeing that. Um, if somebody wants to, to share a link to
uh, to an article or a reference or something, I would, I would be interested
Ok, folks. Well, I wanna thank you all for coming on tonight and
hey, Tobias, thanks for dropping in. Well, I know, I know we're gonna get together and do something before the
uh, the episode eventually comes out. But, um, yeah, that, you know
the Hollywood strike, the writers strike and all that just screwed everything up unfortunately
So, um, yeah, so I don't know what's gonna come out, but I'm looking forward to seeing it and
uh, hopefully, and one thing you and I both have been saying is when this does come out and the quality I
think that was, and the amount of care that was put into it and hell
the way we were treated, we were treated like kings. Uh I think uh I think people are gonna be very happy with it
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that um a lot of people put a lot of hard work into this and uh I think the end
result is going to be something that, that people can be very proud of. And I think it's very witness
It's, it's very witness centric. It puts the Witnesses experiences first and I think that is the
uh, the best and only way to approach these, these subjects. And so
um, yeah, II, I think it's gonna be, I think it's gonna be very informative
So, um, tell folks how they can get a hold of your books again
And, uh, what if you have anything you and Emily are into
are looking into? Tell them about it. Sure. Yeah. Well, if you want to keep up with what we're doing at the Singular 40 in
society, uh, you can always go to our website, uh, Singular 40 in.com
And if you go to Singular 40 and.com/books, of course, you can find all three of our books that are out right now
Uh The Lake Michigan Mothman. High strangeness in the Midwest Strange Tales of The Impossible and the Singular 40 in Societies
you will tide Guide to high strangeness. Uh We are also all over social media
So you can follow Singular 40 in society on Facebook, Twitter, I'm sorry
X uh Instagram, tiktok threads, just all of it. We actually have a uh a dis uh a Discord
server now too. So if you're interested in that, uh we've got a, a pretty
a pretty cool community of uh open minded like-minded, interested people who uh who love talking about all of this
kind of weird stuff. So if you ever want to chat online, you can find us on Discord as well
Uh I've got some appearances coming up next year, but the, the one coming up
the fastest is going to be dead of winter uh in February
down in Alton Illinois. So, uh, so keep your eyes peeled for more on that
Um Since that's just a couple of months away, hard to believe it
But uh it's true. But uh yeah, otherwise, you know, reach out to us through the website or through social media
if you have any experiences you want to share or, or if you're an o'hare employee
you know, please for the love of God like that, I would
I'd love to speak to one. But, uh but yeah, I think otherwise that's
that's generally everywhere you can find us. Well, Tobias, thanks for coming on and uh like I said
we'll be back on together and doing this again eventually. And uh yeah
so folks, um you know, buy the book. I mean, it, it looks very interesting
I, I bought, I actually bought it recently. I'm gonna look at it. So
um yeah, so you take care and uh uh we'll be keeping people updated on this thing in Chicago and the surrounding
areas. So you have a good weekend, stay healthy and I'll talk to you soon
Bye. All right. Thanks a lot. OK. Take care. So
folks, I wanna thank each and all of you for coming and on and watching and chatting
Uh If you did donate, it's truly appreciated. Your support is what makes all this possible
So please like, subscribe and share and if you have a sighting encounter
a report um that you would like to be considered for the personal report show uh posted at fams and Monsters
Feel free to contact me at launcher at Phantoms and monsters.com. So
all I can say is next week we're going to have a Christmas special
Next Friday night, I'm gonna have several members of the team on
We'll be talking creep creepy Christmas uh reports. So that'll be a bit of fun
So, uh I till then you all have a good weekend and I'll be talking to you soon. Thank you