Hi there, I'm John mcadams, founder of the big game hunting blog
In this video, we're gonna talk about everything 270 caliber now, while the United States is indeed a country where 30 caliber cartridges
reign supreme. The 270 board diameter and the accompanying 277 caliber bullets can actually really give the 30 caliber
board diameter a run for its money in terms of popularity here in North America and the USA
Indeed, the 270 can even be described as a uniquely American bore diameter
And as you will learn here shortly, I know of exactly seven cartridges using that 270 board diameter
all of them are of American origin. So in this episode, I hit the highlights of all the 270 caliber Sammy certified cartridges and discuss
their history, legacy, strengths and weaknesses and their recommended uses in detail
Now, in addition to talking about these various cartridges, this video includes some photos of animals taken with these cartridges as well
Some are from me, others were submitted from the audience and used with their permission where applicable details of the animal rifle cartridge
ammunition used shot distance, things like that are all in the video description
So check that out if you want to learn more. Now, I solicited photos from everyone on my email list as I was preparing for
this video. If you would like to have the opportunity to contribute photos to a video in the future
make sure you're on my email list to do that. Click the link in the show notes or go to hunting guns 10 one.com and
sign up there for my free ebook on the best hunting cartridges
You'll get my free ebook when you do that. Plus you'll also start to receive the emails I send out every weekday
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the video description. Now, speaking of the video description, I have put links below the video to articles I've written about some of these cartridges
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So you get a notification when I release new stuff too. Ok
let's get started talking about these 270 caliber cartridges today. Now, in this particular episode
instead of starting from least powerful and working our way up to more powerful like I did in the 30 caliber episode
I think it makes a little bit more sense to start with the oldest cartridge and then work our way forward in time to the
present day. So with that in mind, let's go all the way back in time to 1925 where it all began for the 270 caliber
with the granddaddy of them, all the 270 Winchester. Now the 270 Winchester is basically a 30 yacht six case neck down to shoot
0.277 caliber bullets. Now, why the heck the folks at Winchester chose to use 277 caliber bullets is anybody's
guess there are a few theories out there, but nobody really knows for certain what their methodology was for choosing that bullet size today
Now, seven millimeter or 0.284 caliber bullets were in somewhat common use
Then the same was also true with 6.5 millimeter or 0.264 caliber bullets
But for some reason, Winchester went with 0.277 caliber bullets here that are 0.013 inches or
13, 1/1000 of an inch larger than 6.5 millimeter bullets, but 0.007 inches or 7
1/1000 of an inch smaller than seven millimeter bullets. So right in the middle there
Craig Bonnington wrote an article many years ago where he tried unsuccessfully to get to the bottom of this question though even though he didn't
solve the question or answer the question definitively, he came up with a couple of possibilities
Now, one common theory as to why the folks at Winchester chose this specific board diameter was they chose to use the same board diameter
as the obscure six 0.8 by 57 millimeter Chinese Mauser that saw a little bit of use before world war one
However, that cartridge is obscure with a capital O and Boddington says he's never even been able to turn up a photo of that cartridge
Really. The only reason anyone ever talks about it today is to talk about the origins of the 270 Winchester bore diameter
Now, with that in mind, Bonnington also relayed the theory. Others have posited that Winchester wanted to build a new cartridge based off of the
30 yacht six with a smaller board diameter. But they wanted to build that new cartridge with a uniquely American bullet diameter
and they avoided using 6.5 millimeter and seven millimeter bullet sizes specifically because those bullet sizes were popular
in Europe. Remember this all took place in the early 19 twenties after World war one ended and the United States was getting used to
its new place in the world after that horrible conflict finished. Now
additionally, Boddington also pointed out what others have noticed about the 277 bullet diameter
If you multiply 0.9 times 0.308 you get 0.277. Now, maybe the folks at Winchester were trying to make a statement by building
a cartridge with a bullet diameter 90% the size of that used by the 30 do six or maybe since there doesn't seem to be
any marketing materials or even private notes to that effect. At least that anyone has found and published
maybe this was just more of an engineering goal, right? They, the folks at Winchester knew they wanted something smaller than a 0.308 caliber bullet
and they didn't want a 264 or 284 caliber bullet. So somebody took 90% of 308 as a benchmark and they rolled with it regardless
of exactly how they got there. The 270 was born though by necking down the 30 06 to shoot smaller diameter 0.277 caliber bullets
This new cartridge could shoot lighter bullets at a faster velocity with a correspondingly flatter trajectory and generate less recoil in the process
That original 270 Winchester load shot a 130 grain bullet at a blazing fast velocity especially for 1925 of 3140
ft per second. That's about 28 50 ft pounds of energy. Now
the 270 was not the first widely commercially available cartridge to break the 3000 ft per second mark
No, that honor belonged to Charles Newton's 2 53,000 Savage that came along in 1915
which could fling an 87 grain bullet at 3000 ft per second
Now, that was amazing performance in 1915. Now, the 270 Winchester was physically much larger than the 250 Savage
but it just blew it away in terms of performance and the 270 could shoot a bullet that was 43 grains heavier over 100 ft
per second faster than the 250 Savage. Now, as you might expect
the 270 did gain a reputation for being very effective on thin skinned game
especially stuff like whitetail deer. It wasn't all sunshine and roses though
The 270 was pushing some pretty lightly constructed bullets at lightning fast velocities for the time and some hunters began to complain about it being
a quote unquote Wounder and or for producing large amounts of bloodshot meat on game
I'm not gonna say it was a super controversial cartridge because some
some hunters really liked it. Other people didn't, but it definitely had a little bit of controversy and it was a contention surrounding it
especially during its earlier days. It is funny to me though how things like that get forgotten over time because the 270 certainly does not
have that sort of reputation today. And even among people that don't necessarily like it or
you know, wouldn't say it's their favorite cartridge. I don't think it gets a lot of hate and it's not considered very quote unquote controversial
right now. Either in any case, Tyler Friel republished an article Jack o'connor wrote in 1954 about the 270 relating some
complaints and commentary, other hunters had about the 270 at the time
Now, Tyler thought it was pretty funny and he remarked that what other people were saying back then about the 270 sounds a lot like
how people today talk about the 65 Creedmoor. Do an internet search of the 270 was your grandpa's 65 Creedmoor
And you will probably turn up that article he wrote. Now in that vein
no discussion of the 270 is complete without mentioning either Jack o'connor or the Winchester Model 70
Jack o'connor had many rifles in many different chambers. He hunted with a lot of different stuff
but he is most commonly associated with a Winchester Model 70 rifle chambered in 270 Winchester
And he used that rifle to hunt all sorts of game. I highly recommend visiting the Jack o'connor Museum in Lewiston Idaho where you can
see some of his firearms in taxidermy for yourself. I went many years ago back when I lived in Washington and I'm really glad I
did that was a pretty cool experience. Now, among other things, if you go there
you can see his favorite rifle. Now, that rifle was a Winchester model 70 featherweight in 270 purchased in Lewiston in 1959
It was custom stocked by Al Beason of Spokane who also fitted an engraved trapdoor butt plate and grip cap
That rifle was used by Jack from Botswana to British Columbia on a variety of game to include his last stone sheep in 1973
Now with regards to rifles, the 270 originally hit the market at the same time as the Winchester model 54 rifle
That was itself a great rifle and their simultaneous introduction likely enhanced the reputation of both the model 54 and the 270 cartridge
Now, like I have mentioned previously, it is very interesting to me how quite often what we consider to be legendary cartridges today were introduced
in conjunction with a really great rifle. The 30 06 in the 1903
Springfield is a great example. So is the Rimington model 700 with the seven millimeter ton magnum
Well, the Winchester model 54 and the 270 Winchester are another good example of that phenomenon
Now, Winchester also offered the 270 as one of the original chambering for the model 70 rifle when that rifle came on the scene in
1936 only the 30 at six was a more popular chambering in the model 70
And according to Wayne Van Zal, in the Nosler ninth edition reloading manual
fully, 20% of all the Winchester model seventies produced before 1963 were chambered in 270 Winchester
And of course, Winchester still makes model 70 rifles chambered in 270 Winchester to this day
The same is actually true of basically any rifle you can think of from darn near any manufacturer
Now, I mentioned that the original ballistics of the cartridge were a 130 grain bullet at 3000 140 ft per second
That is fast, especially for a lightweight cup and core bullet. I have no doubt that it was supremely effective on thin skinned game
but I also have no doubt that hunters experienced their share of bullet failures on it too
Now, I would not want to have 100 30 grain cup and core bullet in my magazine if I got an 80 yard shot on
an elk, that was strongly quartering to me. Now, I'm not exactly sure why
but Winchester backed off their original loadings and a 130 grain bullet at 3060 ft per second is a more typical factory load today
Now, bullet weights normally top out at around 100 50 grains for most factory loads and the 270 will push those weight bullets around 28
2900 ft per second. So for instance, Winchester now offers the 270 in 130 grain and 150 grain versions in their powerpoint line
100 30 grain PowerPoint at 3060 ft per second for about 2700 ft pounds of energy and 100 50 grain PowerPoint at 2850
ft per second for also just over 2700 ft pounds of energy
Now, many other companies make 270 Winchester factory ammo just like the case with rifles darn near any ammunition manufacturer makes at least some
270 factory loads as well. Among other companies, Nosler does too. They offer it um with among other loads from Nosler with 100 and 50
grain partition at 2800 ft per second for just over 2600 ft pounds of energy
Going back to the example I made just a second ago of a strongly quartering two presentation on an elk at close range
There's a gigantic difference between 100 30 grain powerpoint and a 150 grain partition
And I would not want to have that 130 grain powerpoint in my magazine under the under those conditions
but I would not hesitate one bit to take that shot with that 150 g partition though now
I am not sure why Winchester and the other companies backed off their factory loads from 3140 ft per second to 3060 ft per second
Um Some people like Chuck Hawks have theorized that they did that in order to quote unquote handicap
the 270 a little bit to make some of their magnum cartridges, like the 264 wind mag
the seven rim mag and the 300 win mag a little bit more appealing to people
Uh, so, like I said, I don't know why they did that, that may be why. Uh
but maybe they realized they were exceeding their pressures or something like that when they were doing it
But whatever the case is for the most part, that 3060 ft per second with 100 and 30 grain bullet is a very standard factory
load right now. That said some cartridges lend themselves very well. Uh
to quote unquote improvements by hand loaders. The 270 is one of those cartridges
I have several reloading manuals and all of them list safe, published hand loads for the 270 that will
easily exceed that 3060 ft per second velocity with 100 and 30 g bullet and approach and sometimes even exceed that original standard
of 3140 ft per second with that 130 g bullet that the 270 was originally introduced with
Now, you can't do that with every cartridge as far as exceeding what you can get with the factory ammo safely anyway
But the 270 is one of those cartridges that, like I said lends itself to that use pretty darn Well
so do what you will with that information. Now that 150 gra partition load is superb for use on bigger game
I would not hesitate one second to use that load on any species of game in the world
Short of Cape Buffalo Elk Moose Kudu, Eland, Wildebeest. No problem. I am sure it would work fine on a big brown bear or grizzly
bear too. Email me John at the big game hunting blog.com. If you have used a 270 on something really
really big, like one of the big bears, I would love to talk to you about that in more detail
Now, a friend of mine is a big fan of the 270 he is the sort of guy hunting guides like to see when he
arrives in camp. He has an old and clearly well used but well cared for Ruger M 77 in 270
He uses that rifle for everything. He's taken a couple moose with it
Same with Caribou. God knows how many deer he's even taken it to Africa and has used it to make some one shot kills on
impala zebra blue Wildebeest and Kudu. He used 100 50 grain partitions for most of those bigger animals to include everything in Africa
And one of the moose, he likes 100 30 grain bullets for deer. He used 100 50 grain acu long range on his most recent
moose because he couldn't get the partitions due to the ongoing ammo shortage
Let's just say the results from those 150 grain cuon long range bullets from Nosler were impressive on the moose that Moose was quartering towards
him at about 300 yards. He said the bullet punched straight through the shoulder blade shredded his vitals
He said the bull staggered turned, gave him a broadside shot during which he put another bullet through the lungs and then the elk
excuse me, the moose collapsed. You can't ask for much more than that
For reference. Nosler lists a muzzle velocity of 2850 ft per second for their 150 grain aon long range factory loads
that gives you just over 2700 ft pounds of energy. And yes
they load that load with the acu long range bullets a little bit hotter than their 150 grain partition loads
But in any case, we will reference that load for the acu long range 150 grain bullet 2850 ft per second
We're gonna reference that multiple times in this episode. Now, just like with rifles you can get darn near every type of ammo you can
think of in 270 Winchester two Winchester powerpoint Remington Co Lock, Federal Power Shock
Federal Fusion. Lots of stuff from Hornady, lots of stuff from Nosler stuff from Barnes
Basically any company that makes center fire rifle ammo makes 270 Winchester ammo and that cartridge is definitely in the top 10 most popular cartridges
in use in the USA. So you can find it darn near anywhere too
There is lots to love about the 270 Winchester and a hunter could reasonably use it on literally any species of game in the world
This iate buffalo and elephant. Plus it does all that with less recoil than the 30 yacht six
Yes, it is less powerful than the 30 yacht six, but it still fits into that quote unquote
powerful enough category for most species of game. And that extra velocity could arguably make it an even better choice for use on thin skinned
game like white tail deer as well. We will discuss this in more detail later in the podcast but probably the biggest complaint people have
about the 270 these days and it is admittedly a minor complaint is the standard one in 10 inch rifling twist rate of the cartridge
is not compatible with some of the really long sleek high BC bullet designs that are becoming more popular
Sure, you can get that cuon long range. I just mentioned in 270 same with stuff like the Barnes Lrx
the horn ad Eldx. But those bullets have a noticeably lower BC in 277 caliber than the exact same bullet design does in 6.5
millimeter or seven millimeter because of the rifling twist rate issues I just mentioned for that reason
companies are starting to look into offering faster twist rates in modern production
270 rifles, for instance, Browning offers a couple models of their ex bolt with a faster one in eight inch or even one in 7.5
inch twist rate. That will let it use some of the higher BC 277 caliber bullets that are starting to become available today
We'll discuss this a little bit more later in the episode. most hunters won't need a rifle like that
But those developments are also a good sign that regardless of what new and hot cartridges hit the market
the 270 is probably here to stay and that is a good thing
Now, the 270 the original 270 Winchester hit the markets 1925. Not much happened otherwise on that board diameter front until
1943 when the 270 weatherby magnum came along. Now, that was the first weatherby cartridge
It was also the 1st 270 magnum. It was also the first commercially successful belted magnum
This cartridge was designed basically along the same lines as the seven rim mag and the 300 win mag that came along later
you take a 300 H and H case, blow it out, shorten it a little bit to fit in a standard length rifle action
neck it down to 277 caliber and then give it the weatherby signature
double radius shoulder, do all those things. Boom, you got a 270 weatherby cartridge
Now, unlike the 300 weather B which is a magnum length cartridge
the 270 weatherby is a shorter cartridge that fits in a standard length rifle action
same as the original 270 same as the 30 yacht six. Now, weatherby introduced this cartridge 1943 it received formal Sammy approval 1994
with basically all of the other weatherby cartridges that had been designed up to that point
This cartridge has a Sammy maximum average pressure of 62,500 P. Si Now the 270 Weatherby magnum was the 270
magnum for many many years. Roy Weatherby was a brilliant marketer, for instance
his rifles were themselves just beautiful works of art and he made sure public figures like John Wayne
Chuck Yeager guys like that had examples of weatherby rifles to hunt with themselves to further increase the cool factor of weatherby rifles
Plus those rifles were often chambered in weatherby magnum cartridges that had eye popping ballistics
For instance, there's a load in the Barnes Vortex Line and this is actually an outlier with regular 270 Winchester factory ammo today shooting a
130 grain tt sx at 3140 ft per second for about 28 50 ft pounds of energy
Now, that's a 270 Winchester loading 130 grain bullet, 3140. Well, weather beat makes a 270 weatherby Magnum factory
load with that same 130 grain tt sx at 3400 ft per second that's delivering just over 3300 ft pounds of energy
So darn near 500 ft pounds of energy, more than the 270 Winchester with the same bullet in that same vein
Hor, he makes a loading for the 270 Winchester 130 grain interlock at 3060 ft per second for just over 2700 ft pounds of energy
Well, there's a weather be factory load for the 270 weather be that same 130 grain interlock at 33 50 ft per second for 3239
ft pounds of energy. By the same token, Nosler makes that 150 grain cuon long range loading at 2850 ft per second for just over
2700 ft pounds of energy for the 270 Winchester. Well, Nosler also makes a loading with that same 150 grain acu long range at 3080
ft per second for 3159 ft pounds of energy for the 270 weather beat
Now it shoots that 150 grain aon long range faster than typical 270 Winchester factory loads will push 100 30 grain
bullet. It's only a little bit faster than those 130 grain factory loads
but it is faster with the same weight bullet. You're looking at a velocity improvement or velocity advantage for the 270 weather be of 230
to 290 ft per second faster than the 270 Winchester. With those loads I just talked about
So the 270 weatherby has everything he liked about the 270 Winchester
but just more flatter trajectory, less wind deflection, more retained energy down range
It has more though, I would not say excessive recoil and more muzzle blast
things like that, ammo is also more expensive too. And it's also not quite as easy to find
Now, most 270 weather be rifles have 26 inch barrels. So you need a longer barrel to take full advantage
of the full potential of this cartridge. Uh Contrast that with 22 to 24 inch barrels being most common with the 270 some do have
longer barrels. But like I said, you buy just a random 270 Winchester rifle
It's gonna have either a 22 or 24 inch barrel on it probably, like I said to the 270 weather be
you also just have to deal with more expensive, harder defined ammo. Now
Weatherby was the sole provider of both rifles and ammo for the cartridge for a long time since it became Sammy standardized in 1994
Things have gotten a little better. But right now as I record this in late 2023 Nosler is the only company I know of other
than Weatherby to make factory uh 270 weatherby ammo in large quantities
Now that said boutique ammunition manufacturers like hinder shots and like choice ammunition do make 270 weatherby ammo as well
Now I also talked about ammo being more expensive. Well, here's a good example
I send an in stock ammo, email update to everyone on my email list every Friday
So that's another reason to join my email list if you haven't already done
So, click a link in the show notes and sign up there and you'll start automatically receiving these emails when I send them out
But in any case, I was researching for one of my more recent ammo update emails and I saw that I think it was midway
USA at least when I was doing it had some of that Nosler trophy grade long range ammo in stock for both the 270 Winchester
and the 270. Weatherby. Well, that 270 Winchester AMMO was 6999 the 270 Weatherby ammo in that same line from the same company 109
99. So there are definite advantages to going with the 270 Weatherby Magnum
But those are the downsides of doing. So now it's not the most popular weather be cartridge if the 300 weather be is the most
popular weather be cartridge right now. I think the 257 weather be is probably next
Maybe the 270 weather be is after that, maybe the 460 weather be or one of the other cartridges is more popular
So it's a moderately popular weather be magnum cartridge. The good news is that weatherby will likely always support the 270 Weatherby magnum cartridge
So you can, if, if nowhere else you'll probably be able to get AMMO from weatherby
same thing with rifles. So as long as Weatherby itself is in business
then it shouldn't be an issue finding that stuff out there. Now
like was also the case to a smaller extent with the 270 Winchester
When it was first released, the 270 weather be since it is such a high velocity cartridge
it is very rough on bullets. Now, a high velocity cartridge shoots really fast and it retains a lot of energy for a longer range
shot on a game animal, a field. But your risk of bullet failure is increasing with close range impacts with softer bullets
So for that reason, I advise going with the tougher bullets here with the 270 weather be right that 130 grain tt sx
that's a great choice for getting the most out of the 270 weather
be under a variety of conditions and also not hampering yourself up close either
Now, really all things considered this cartridge though it did improve on the original 270 Winchester was not as big of a leap forwards in
terms of extra performance compared to what the other weatherby magnums delivered say the 300 weatherby compared to like the 30 yacht six
at the time or even the three H and H that was a big jump forward
The 270 weather bee was a jump forward but not as big of a jump. So for that reason
like I said, it just was never, never a super popular Weatherbee cartridge or never super duper popular among the hunting public at large
Additionally, this cartridge has some competition these days. Now, not much happened in the 270 space for a long time after the 270 weather be
hit the shelves in the 19 forties that changed in 2002 though now there was a new cartridge that hit the scene then called the
270 Winchester Short magnum. This cartridge followed on the heels of the 300 Winchester Short magnum and it was basically just a 300
Winchester Short magnum neck down to 270 caliber. Now, remember the 270 weather beat was the 270 magnum for a long time
And people got to thinking what if we could get that level of performance out of an even shorter package
Well, that's what they did with the 270 Winchester Short magnum. This is a beltless cartridge with a slightly rebated rim means the rim is
a little bit smaller in diameter than the case body. It's a very short and fat yet very efficient cartridge
Now, as was the case with the 300 Winchester short mag. Some people say the 270 short mag is based on some say it's inspired
by the 404 Jeffrey cartridge either way, 404. Jeffrey has a slightly fatter body than even the belted portion of the 375 H and H
magnum. For this reason, you can get a larger diameter container to put powder in
especially if the cartridge has minimal body taper. So that's how you can get a cartridge like the 270 WSM to nearly match the 270
weatherby magnum in terms of case capacity. And at the same time
also fit in an even shorter package with a max length of 2.86 inches fits in that short action rifle like I just talked about
same as the 308. Whereas the 270 Weatherby and the 270 Winchester
the original 270 Winchester both use a 30 06 length action. The 270 WSM is almost but not quite as fast as the 270
Weatherby magnum. It's almost the same though very similar to the dynamic we saw with the 300 Winchester Short magnum versus the 300 Winchester Magnum
plus with the 270 wsm that slightly fatter and shorter powder column is a little more efficient and it possibly provides an
accuracy accuracy boost over the longer and skinnier powder column of the 270 Weatherby magnum and the 270 short mag doesn't
need quite as long of a barrel for optimum performance. Now, like I said
26 inch barrels are most common with the 270 weatherby and some rifles even have a 28 inch barrel when they put a two inch
long muzzle brake on the end of that 26 inch long regular barrel. Well
browning makes their ex bolt long range and 270 Winchester short mag
It also has a 26 inch barrel, but that's more of an exception than the rule
24 inch barrels are more common with the short mag. Most of Browning's other 270 short mag options have 23 or even 22 inch long
barrels. In the case of their quote unquote compact offerings, uh things are similar with Winchester
all of their 270 Winchester short mag rifles have 22 or 24 inch barrels
Now, I'm gonna share some of the ballistics for the 270 short mag compared to the regular 270 the 270 weather be here in a
minute, but realize the 270 Winchester Short mag provides a good boost in velocity over the regular 270 it is almost up there with the
270 weatherby. And like I said, that performance also comes in a pretty compact package and since the cartridge is shorter and more efficient
you can get excellent performance out of a rifle that's not nearly as big
So for instance, with a Winchester model 70 featherweight in regular 270
It has a 22 inch long barrel, 42.75 inches long overall. Now
that same rifle and 270 short mag has a 24 inch barrel and is 44.25 inches long overall
Has a 2.5, excuse me, a two inch longer barrel but is only an inch and a half longer overall than the regular 270 Winchester
Now, the 270 Weatherby is not available in the model 70 but Weatherby makes a bunch of rifles in it
For instance, there mark five backcountry 2.0 48 inches long overall with a 28 inch long barrel
26 inch long barrel with a two inch long break on the end of it. So quite a bit bigger than both the 270 Winchester
and the 270 short mag. Now their mark five Hunter is 47 inches long and has a 26 inch long barrel with no muzzle break
So like I said, the 270 short mag is right up there in terms of ballistic performance with the 270 weather bee
but you don't need nearly as big of a rifle to get that level of performance
And the 270 short mag also gives a tiny bit of an advantage with recoil sometimes too compared to the 270 weather be anyway because
it burns less powder to get nearly the same velocity. Now I'm gonna talk in more detail about a guy named Rick Jamison here in
a minute. He was heavily involved in the design of the 270 Winchester Short mag and the patents that I'm about to talk about also
applied to the 270 short mag as well as all of the other short magnums that Winchester made and some other cartridges as well
He especially loves the 270 Winchester Short magnum and Nosler soli solicited a bunch of small one page long columns from a number
of different gun writers to put in their ninth edition reloading manual
Well, Rick Jamieson wrote their column for the 270 short Mac. Here is a excerpt from it
Little things add up a shorter action by a little, a lighter rifle by a little
a shorter barrel by a little, a shorter bulk stroke by a little
it is easy to carry, quick to handle and powerful. The 270 Winchester Short mag performance is way out of proportion to its length in
a short action. It has no peer. It stands alone, end of quote
All right. That was from Rick Jamison. Like I said, we're gonna talk more about him here in a second
Now, let's talk about ballistics of the cartridge that I keep teasing you and I'll compare it to the regular 270 to the 270 weatherby
Now, Winchester makes a couple of factory loads for the 270 short mag
for instance, they have 100 30 grain loading in their deer season. XP line 3275 ft per second muzzle velocity
Almost 3100 ft pounds of energy. Barnes makes a factory load 100 40 grain tt sx at 3135 ft per second for
3056 ft pounds of energy. You can also get 100 and 50 grain powerpoint from Winchester 3150 ft per second for just over 3300
ft pounds of energy. And you can also get that 150 grain Nosler acu long range bullet I keep talking about at 3050 ft per
second for almost 3100 ft pounds of energy. Now, that's for all that I just talked about was for the 270 short Mac
Now remember we got that same 150 grain aon long range at 2850 for just over 2700 ft pounds of energy for the regular 270
then for the 270 weatherby that same 150 grain nosler acu long range at 3080 ft per second for 3159
ft pounds of energy. So 3080 ft per second, verse 3050 ft per second
the 270 weather be 30 ft per second faster than the 270 short mag
And then you got the 270 shooting that same bullet at 28 50 ft per second
So impressive ballistics for this little cartridge. Now, like I mentioned in the 30 caliber episode
there was a lot of drama associated with Rick Jamison and Winchester
Regarding all of the short magnum cartridges, it applied to the 300 short mag
It also applied to the 270 short mag and all of the other ones
Long story short, Rick Jamieson, the guy I was just talking about managed to patent a certain design principle that was utilized in the
short magnum cartridges. Basically the idea of a quote unquote short fat cartridge like that
he wanted Winchester to license production of those cartridges from him. So he wanted to get a royalty every time that they produced rifles
and ammunition using a cartridge, using any of his patents. They didn't want to do that
They wanted to work out some other sort of deal with him. A lot of the details have gotten really blurred over time and it's
one of these things that a lot of stuff has been said about it, but there's not a lot of people around these days that
really know what the heck happened. Long story short, they made a settlement
the details of which are confidential and only Rick and the people at Winchester know what the details were of it
But it appears that after a lot of drama and arguing and going back and forth
they did manage to work out a royalty agreement where they were paying him royalties on that stuff
This applied to Winchester and Browning as far as I know, most other companies did not want to deal with that
And so it took a long time, for instance, for Hornady to pick up all the short magnum cartridges
And they actually went out of their way with the folks at Ruger to design some other cartridges in their compact magnum lime that were
close enough in size to the short magnum cartridges that they could just modify existing tooling for rifles and ammunition to
work with that new cartridge. But do so without having to pay royalties to Rick Jamieson for doing so
Now, like I have mentioned previously, patents on cartridges themselves are very unusual
So are royalties associated with that. That's not how gun and ammunition companies normally make money
So for instance, take a cartridge like the seven rim mag or the 223 Remington
Um, Rimington makes money off of those by making rifles, na munition and components for them
But if Winchester makes ammo and rifles, you know, for those cartridges
Remington doesn't get anything out of it. There's no, you know, Winchester doesn't pay Remington to
to use their cartridge names or vice versa or any of that stuff
they make it, they make their money by making rifles ammunition otherwise
components, things like that. So this was very unusual what happened with all of these short magnum cartridges
And like I said, it's very hard to get good info on exactly what the heck happened with all of this drama between Mr Jamison
and Winchester. As far as I can tell the patents that are related to these cartridges have since expired
which is why you see companies like Hornady and Nosler making factory ammunition for the 270 short mag and the other short magnum cartridges
But as you can imagine though, when there's drama associated like that, uh
that makes a company not wanna make rifles or ammo for a certain cartridge because they don't want to pay royalties for it
That is very bad for the adoption of the cartridge and it almost strangled the entire line of Winchester Short magnum cartridges in the crib
even so the 270 short mag is the second most popular of the Short Magnum family
The 300 Winchester Short Magnum is the most popular and the fact that those two cartridges have really survived to this day
despite all of that drama really is a good testament to show how good of performers both of them were
And it's interesting to think maybe about how would have things been different for the short magnum cartridges if all that initial drama wouldn't have
been present at the beginning. And not only did Winchester and Browning get on board with it
but you had Remington and Hornady and Nosler and everybody else immediately jumping on these cartridges from the beginning
we'll never know exactly how popular they would be, but I'll bet they would be more popular than they are now and they're still relatively
popular. So, like I keep saying, the 270 Winchester Short Magnum gives you basically everything that you like about the 270 Weatherby magnum
But it does. So with a little less recoil and it exists in a smaller package
doesn't require as long of a barrel ammo for this cartridge has been really tough to get over the last couple of years during the
ammo shortage. But it is improving. Uh, this car like this cartridge
like I said, it is very popular, not on the level of the 300 short mag or the 270 Winchester
but I will say it is probably more popular overall than the 270 weatherby
You got a little bit more variety with AMMO and with rifles for the 270 short mag than is the case with the 270 weatherby
but not quite to the degree as the original 270 Winchester, but all in all great cartridge
And I can understand why a lot of people really like it and like to hunt with it
Now, the next 270 cartridge came out just a couple years later in 2004
It's called the 6.8 millimeter Rimington S PC. Now the S PC stands for special purpose cartridge
This cartridge is completely different from anything else we have talked about to this point
Now, you could file the 6.8 Remington S PC in the same category as cartridges like the 300 blackout 300 hammer and the 65 grindle
that are all designed to improve upon the performance of the 223 or 556 cartridges
but still function in an AR-15 or M-16. Now, the shooting world has long been filled with stories of our brave servicemen and women shooting
enemy soldiers with their M-16s. Only to have the bad guys shrug off the hit
continue fighting and potentially killing or wounding Americans before finally going down after taking a lot more hits from the little 556 cartridge
Now there were some stories like that from Vietnam but serious and quite real reliability issues with the rifle overshadowed
Most concerns people had about the stopping power of the little 556 cartridge
Well, updates to the rifle largely fix those reliability problems and combine that with the fact that the military changed ammunition from the very high
velocity 55 grain M 193 round to the slower 62 grain M 855 round
Those changes brought issues with the effectiveness of the 556 cartridge on enemies on the battlefield to the forefront and they really came home to
roost in the early two thousands when the war on terror really got started going in earnest in Afghanistan and for those reasons
there was a renewed urgency for the task of finding a newer
more powerful cartridge that would function in the M four car being and the M-16 rifle yet still shoot accurately and have superior terminal performance
As a result, the folks at Remington partnered with some people in the army marksmanship unit and started working together to build a new cartridge
that used a shortened 30 Rimington case. Now, this was a cartridge I mentioned in the 30 caliber episode that was basically a rimless 30
caliber cartridge that was Remington's answer to the 3030 Winchester. It came along in the early 19 hundreds
wasn't really popular itself and kind of faded away, but they took that cartridge case necked it down to shoot a 6.8 millimeter or a
270 caliber bullet. It was actually 277 caliber to be precise, same as all of the other cartridges we're talking about in this episode
Now, 277 caliber bullets split the difference between 6.5 millimeter and seven millimeter projectiles in terms of accuracy
potential BC potential and terminal effects. So they make sense for those wanting a cartridge more powerful than a 223 that still
functions within the tight constraints of the AR-15 platform. Now, as I have mentioned previously
cartridges must be 2.26 inches long or shorter and operate within a pretty narrow pressure window in order to safely
and reliably function in an M-16 or an AR-15. Now, the 30 Remington has a larger diameter case 0.422 inches
versus 0.378 inches for the 223, but it's not quite so large as the case used on the 762 by 39 or the 65 grindle
This simplified the design of the 6.8 millimeter cartridge all in all this new cartridge performed pretty well in A R series rifles and it
only required a new barrel, a new bolt face and some modified magazines
Their original goal was a 115 grain bullet at 2800 ft per second for just over 2000 ft pounds of energy
However, let's just say that initial design was a little rushed and it encountered issues when initially submitted to the army for formal approval
Now, they had some issues specifically with excess pressure. So because they were in a hurry
the folks at Wim Remington downloaded the cartridge a little to reduce pressure and
and they did that instead of taking the time to do a more thorough investigation into the cartridge design and potentially make a change that
would allow the cartridge to reach that goal of 100 15 grade bullet at 2800 ft per second without excess pressure
Well, they got the worst of both worlds by doing what they did though even though that new load met pressure specifications
the military ultimately passed on it because it wasn't quite powerful enough for what they wanted to do
Now, that design received Sammy approval in 2004 and the initial load offered to the public fired that 115 grain bullet at 2625
ft per second for about 1750 ft pounds of energy. Now, that was still a big leg up on the 556
right. It has about 40% more muzzle energy than that ma 55 load
but it was not quite what it could have been. Now, this cartridge had quite a bit of hype surrounding it
Heck, I remember reading articles about the quote unquote new 6.8 millimeter S PC back when I was a cadet at West Point
those articles were all saying that this was the new hot thing that we'd be using in Iraq and it was way better than the
556 cartridge, et cetera, et cetera. Now, some people listening to this podcast may recall that we used to have a federal assault weapons ban
in the United States. Congress passed that ban in 1994 but it had a 10 year sunset provision in it
Well, it was due to expire in 2004. The Bush administration and Republicans in Congress declined to renew or extend that assault weapons
ban. So it expired and there was a big spike in demand for new AR-15 designs after that happened
Everybody wanted a piece of the action. And since that 6.8 S PC design received Sammy approval
Everyone buying rifles at the time in that chambering was buying a rifle with a chamber design that couldn't operate at full potential for the
cartridge without excess pressure and it had to use the downloaded ammo
So that is what the AMMO companies had to produce. Nobody likes a cartridge that is hamstrung like that
especially when the very similar 6.5 grindle, which did not have those issues received Sammy approval a few years later
Well, some folks that really liked the 6.8 S PC and wanted to see it live up to its full potential
made some minor design changes to the cartridge and it mainly involved increasing free bore
This allowed the use of much more powerful 6.8 S PC ammo without excess pressure
Now, unfortunately, because there are now a bunch of older 6.8 S BC rifles out there using the old chamber design
factory ammo still has to be loaded down to those reduced specifications
Now, since that new chamber design came out, new production rifles will have a 6.8 S PC two designation
And when I say two, I mean the Roman numeral for two. So it'll say 6.8 S PC I I
Now new production rifles are gonna have that designation. They can fully take advantage of the capabilities of the cartridge which are pretty darn impressive
Unfortunately, you really need to hand load to take full advantage of this cartridges potential though
Because like I, like I talked about with the issue with factory ammo and all those old chamber designs
Now, here's what I mean. Now, Federal and Hornady both produce a couple of great factory hunting loads for the cartridge
Federal offers it in their fusion MS R line with either either a 90 grain fusion soft point at 28 50 ft per second
So about 1600 ft pounds of energy or 100 50 grain fusion soft point at 2470 for about 1550 ft pounds of energy
Hornady has 100 grain CX loading in their custom line flinging a 100 grain CX at 25 50 ft per second for about 1440
ft pounds of energy or 100 20 grain SST at 24 60 ft per second for about 1600 ft pounds of energy
That's not bad at all. You can kill the heck out of any hog or deer out to a couple 100 yards with any of
those loads. But like I said, those factory loads aren't bad, but hand loaders who have rifles with that 6.8 S BC two chamber can
safely use much spicier ammo going 100 to 300 ft per second faster with the same weight bullet
The other really nice thing about the 6.8 S PC is that it does not need a long barrel for maximum performance and you'll be
close to the full potential for the cartridge with just a 16 inch long barrel
Now, it's not quite as good suppressed as the 300 blackout, but it is still darn capable in that role
And really, this cartridge seems to have found a home among hog hunters because it excels in short barreled A RS
even those that are suppressed does not have bad recoil at all
And it just hammers hogs out to a couple of 100 yards. I'm not exactly sure what ammo he uses
but no less an authority on hog hunting than Glenn G. Absolutely loves the 6.8 S PC go all the way back to episodes 39
40 41 and 42 of the podcast to hear more from him
As another side note, Remington also released the 30 Remington A R cartridge that I mentioned in the 30 caliber podcast around the same time
And that is another example of a cartridge with lots of potential that also just fell flat
Now, not much else happened on the 277 caliber front for another stretch of time after the 6.8 S PC from Remington came out
but then we saw another flurry of activity here much more recently
Now, the 277 sig Fury hit the markets in 2019 and that was the next big piece of activity on the 270 caliber
front. This is completely different from the 6.8 S BC. The only similarity is they both use similar sized bullets and there was some initial
involvement on both of them with the military. Now, the 2776 Fury uses a revolutionary design that enables the cartridge to operate at very
high pressures. Now, typically 65,000 P si is the max pressure that brass cartridges and modern small arms can safely handle
The new 277 Fury designed by Sig has a whopping Sammy maximum average pressure of 80,000 P
Si now they were able to do that by building the cartridge with a steel case head and a brass body sig originally designed this
cartridge for submission to the US army's next generation squad weapon program
And they also released it in late 2019 for civilian use in conjunction with their cross bolt action rifle
The cartridge received Sammy approval in 2020. Now the big deal here is that the 277 Fury is delivering ballistics almost identical to the old
270 Winchester, but it does so out of a 16 inch long barrel
Now remember that two, the old 270 typically uses 22 to 24 inch long barrels
And the 277 Fury also does this out of a short action cartridge now
Yes, Sig and the army both finally decided to move away from AR-15 size chambers here
This opened things up quite a bit for further innovation. So the 277 Fury is very
very similar in size to the 308 with an overall length of 3.825 inches
Now sig advertises that this cartridge will shoot a 135 grain bullet at 3000 ft per second or 100 50 grain bullet at 2900 ft
per second. Remember that's out of a 16 inch barrel and with a much smaller case than the old 270
Now, that ridiculous pressure of 80,000 P si and that's about 23% more than the 65,000 P SI used by new hot rod cartridges like
the seven millimeter PR C is how they do that. That new case with a steel case head is how they built a new cartridge
capable of handling that pressure. Now, brass has certain advantages for use in cartridge design
but steel is a little bit stronger. So by making a multiple piece cartridge with a brass body
but a steel case head at the base of the cartridge where pressure is going to be the highest
they're going to take advantage of the greater strength of the steel at the case to contain those really high pressures
But at the same time, have the rest of the cartridge case made from brass that it is easier to work with and also just
a little bit more malleable and will function a little bit more reliably in firearms too
So the idea is they're getting the best of both worlds. This idea is literally some new cutting edge stuff
The army is in the process of testing out the cartridge along with a rifle and a squad automatic weapon using the new cartridge
And they're getting ready to field all of these systems. Now, they call the 277 Fury
the 6.8 common cartridge in military nomenclature. Now between those guns I just talked about and the new M 17 and M
18 9 millimeter pistols which are basically modified sig P 320 handguns that replace the old Beretta M nine or the Beretta 92
sig is going hard at those military contracts now because this is such a new cutting edge round this using new technology that we haven't
really seen before. I'm expecting there to be some major teething issues along the way
But I will say though there is lots of potential here and this could be a revolutionary new design development that in 20 years
maybe, maybe all the cartridges are gonna use something like this and that will completely change the way that cartridges are designed
the performance that we can expect out of them. That sort of thing. I personally have heard a lot about the 277 Fury
but I have never actually shot one myself. Shoot me an email John at the big game hunting blog.com
if you have a Sig cross rifle or any other rifle in that chambering and can share some experiences using it in the real world
especially while actually hunting. Ok. So that all happened in 2019, early 2020
Next up is a cartridge that also came on the scene right around the same time
the 27 Nosler Nosler rolled it out at the 2020 shot show
Now, this is the most recent addition to Nasser's line of proprietary cartridges
It joined 22 26 28 3033 Nosler, like all of those rounds except the 22 Nosler
The 27 Nosler uses a 404 Jeffrey case necked down has a rebated rim and is shortened to fit in a 30 06
length action. However, the folks at Nosler didn't just make the 27 Nosler a speed demon
It is a speed demon, but there's more to it than that. They also built it with a faster than typical rifling twist rate and
they introduced a special new high BC bullet to go along with it
Now, this is what I was referring to earlier with the original 270. Let's go back in time a little bit to the 270 WSM
270 weatherby. Now, while those cartridges were indeed commercially successful, many felt that the 270 WSM cartridge in particular didn't live up to its full
potential. This is because it suffered from the same limitations as the other short action magnum cartridges designed around that time like the seven millimeter
Remington Short Action ultra magnum and the seven millimeter Winchester Short magnum
In that it used a design focused solely on higher velocity instead of heavier and more aerodynamic bullets
Specifically, the 270 short mag used the same 1 to 10 inch rifling twist rate as the original 270 Winchester
that twist rate worked fine for bullets in the 130 to 150 grain weight range most popular for the two cartridges
Now, while those bullets are outstanding for many hunting applications, they don't quite offer the sort of extended range performance
More and more hunters and shooting shooters are looking for these days. Shooters and hunters have started to place a much higher emphasis on long
heavy and aerodynamic projectiles in recent years. With the rise in popularity of long range shooting
In response, the various ammunition manufacturers have started to work on things to satisfy that demand with offerings using sleek low drag
bullets. Nassar acu acu long range Barnes, Lrx Horn of the Eldx and the various burger bullets are all great examples of extremely aerodynamic
hunting projectiles that have really taken off in recent years, especially in 6.5 millimeter seven millimeter and 30 caliber
Unfortunately, those slower rifling twist rates used by the 270 Winchester 270 weatherby and 270 Winchester short mag held back development of those
long heavy low drag bullets in 277 caliber. Now, all of those bullets are available in the different 270 cartridges
But their B CS are notably lower than comparable 6.57 millimeter and 30 caliber offerings
Well, the folks at Nosler built the 27 Nosler with a faster one in 8.5 inch rifling twist rate and they also built
a new 165 grain Aon long range bullet to go with it
Now, the 150 grain Aon long range, the 2 72 70 weather beat and 270 short mag all use has a G one BC of
0.591. That's a good BC. But that 165 grain AON long range has a G one BC of 0.62
And by the way, the 27 Nosler can fling that high BC
165 grain Aon long range at 3158 ft per second for 3653 ft pounds of energy
So let's compare it to some of those other lows we were talking about earlier. So 165 at 3100 and 58 for the 27 Nosler
You've got the 150 grain Aon long range 2800 and 50 for the 270 3050 for the 270 short mag 3080
for the 270 weatherby So that's 78 to 308 ft per second faster with a bullet with a significantly higher BC for
the 27 Nosler. And by comparison, that loading for the 270 has 1484 ft pounds of energy and 40 inches of
drop at 500 yards. The 270 short mag has 1734 ft pounds of energy remaining and 34.4 inches a drop
and the 270 Weatherby has 1773 ft pounds of energy remaining and 33.7 inches of drop
We'll compare that to the 27 Nosler. It has 31.4 inches a drop at that range and still has over 2100 ft pounds of energy
remaining. Now, that is comparable to the brand new seven millimeter pr C in terms of retained energy downrange
which is pretty darn impressive. So the 27 Nosler shoots flatter and is quite a bit more powerful than all those other 270 cartridges
due to its design characteristics. One having that real that long standard linked action fat case like that combined with the ability
to use those really high BC aerodynamic projectiles. I had a 27 Nosler and I liked it
It shoots almost like a laser and it hammers what it hits
But this is a pretty specialized rifle cartridge just due to the nature of it being a Nosler proprietary cartridge like that
So it's not super widely adopted, um, only Nosler makes rifles for it as far as I know
And Nosler is the primary uh, manufacturer of AMMO for it. Once again
you can get it from places like hinder shots and um uh choice ammunition
smaller boutique manufacturers like that. And that's actually where I was getting my AMMO for a little while when I got the rifle
but couldn't get factory ammo from Nosler during the worst of the ammo shortage
Now, Nosler just had some bad luck with this one, introducing a brand new cartridge like this and then immediately having the pandemic hit a
couple of months later and then just the next couple of years being a giant mess of supply shortages and just obscene demand for ammo
et cetera, et cetera. Those things undoubtedly hurt the adoption of the 27 Nosler
This was probably never going to be a super widely adopted cartridge on the level of the old 270 Winchester
It was always going to be a more specialized cartridge with more niche appeal to people
But even so what ended up happening with it? That was really all out of Nasser's control
put a crimp on things with it. Now, the work that went into developing the 27 Nosler and that 165 grain cuon long range bullet
though may be more important than the cartridge itself. This leads us to the next and the final cartridge we're gonna talk about in this
episode, the 6.8 Western this cartridge came on the scene at the absolute worst part of the ammo shortage in January of 2021
I have never seen a cartridge receive such a negative initial roll out
But to be fair, those reactions were more likely result of people's fragile mental state as a result of a year of the craziness that
surrounded 2020 with the pandemic and everything else that went along with it along with frustration with the ammo shortage at the time
more so than any issues with the cartridge itself. But my goodness
I am glad I was not working. The social media accounts for Browning or Winchester when they introduced the 68 Western because they got a
lot of figurative tomatoes thrown at them for every post about the 6.8 Western during that roll out in 2021
Indeed, I have never met anyone with a 6.8 Western rifle who did not like it
This cartridge is very similar in appearance to the 270 Winchester short mag at first glance
but it has more head height and a faster one in seven or one in eight inch rifling twist rate that lends itself to use
with long high BC bullets. The flagship 6.8 Western load actually uses the same 165 grain cuon long range as the 27
Nosler, but it just shoots it a little bit slower. You get a muzzle velocity of 29 70 ft per second for about 32 26
ft pounds of energy. Now, Browning also rolled out a 6.8 Western loading at the same time with a 175 grain Sierra game changer bullet
0.617 BC. That bullet was going 2835 ft per second for just under 3200 ft pounds of energy
Ballistics weren't quite as impressive as the 165 grain cuon long range ammo with that one
but it was still a really good load. Now, Brent Verrill actually used that browning loading from his 68 Western to kill an Elk in
Arizona that he told us about in episode 246. So go check that one out
That was a great episode in the 68 Western with that 175 g browning load did great for him when you crunch the numbers that
68 Western load has a little flatter trajectory, less wind deflection and a tiny bit more retained energy and less recoil than a 168 grain
nassar ACU long range factory load for the seven millimeter ton magnum
Now the 68 Western 165 grain ACU bon long range load actually surpasses the 180 grain AON load for the 300 wind mag in the
energy department around 300 yards and also has a flatter trajectory and less wind deflection than the 300 Winchester Magnum out at 500
yards. And by the way, the 68 Western does all of that out of a short action cartridge plus similar to the case with Hornady
pr C rounds. The +68 Western uses a much more modern overall cartridge design than those older cartridges
This includes the 270 Winchester Short Magnum Jon Snow wrote a fantastic article on the subject for outdoor life
Do an internet search for modern cartridge design and it will probably come right up
Long story short, companies designing new cartridges these days typically employ more modern cartridge design principles that incorporate best practices obtained
from competition and bench rest shooters to obtain best possible accuracy with those new routes
In addition to a faster twist rate cartridges designed using these principles have cases with a long enough neck to support those longer high BC
bullets can seat those long high BC bullets to the Sammy specified maximum overall length without intruding into the powder column
They employ minimal body taper, they head space off sharp shoulders and they have a chamber design with a snug throat taken together
These design principles result in cartridges with a very high degree of accuracy potential especially at extended range
So the 68 Western is a super cartridge with great external ballistics that also has wonderful potential for accuracy
Really, the only complaint I have ever heard about the 6.8 Western is AMMO and rifle availability
Winchester and Browning are o the only major companies that produce AMMO for it at this instant
Hinder Shotts does not produce 68 Western ammo as I record this but choice ammunition does and they have a couple different 68 Western loads
with several different bullet types to include some from Berger and Nosler
Now Browning in Winchester were the original manufacturers of 68 Western rifles
They still make them Christensen arms fierce in sequence precision all produce 68 Western rifles too as I record this
Now, things seem to be a little better on that front now. But that 165 grain acu bon long range loading was especially difficult to
find for a long time. And during 2022 in particular, I received an earful from hunters who bought rifles in 68 Western in anticipation of
using that hot rod 165 grain A blr loading that, that Winchester in particular was really advertising heavily saying things like
hey, you need to buy our new rifle chambered in this new hot rock cartridge
So you can take advantage of the incredible ballistics offered by this factory load
but they couldn't get ammo for it. And those people were understandably very frustrated that they couldn't get factory ammo with the awesome loading that
they specifically bought that new rifle in that new chambering to use
Now, I'm sure the folks at Winchester were doing their best here but it was just a crazy time with
like I said, just incredible demand for AMMO, all of that stuff. They did roll out a couple of other loads like 100 and 62
grain copper impact 100 70 grain powerpoint and 100 and 70 grain ballistic silvertip factory load for the 68 Western
This was in addition to the original 165 and 175 grain loads from Browning in Winchester and as good as those loads may have been
people didn't want that new ammo as much as they wanted the original stuff, especially the 165 grain cuon long range loading
The cartridge was originally marketed for as good as the 68 Western is it is living in something of a limbo right now where a
lot of hunters aren't quite sure what the future looks like for it. Nobody wants to buy a rifle chamber in a new hot rod
cartridge only for the manufacturer to discontinue production of rifles and factory ammo just a couple of years down the road
On one hand, I can understand why people don't want to use something
especially something new that is uncommon. On the other hand, a lot of people have to start using that new cartridge for it to become
common and once it becomes common, then other manufacturers are more likely to pick up the production of rifles NAMO in it
And at the same time, if something becomes common. It's more likely for the original manufacturers of it to continue production of it
Now, unfortunately, for the 68 Western, the fact that it competes in a similar market segment as the seven millimeter PR C from Hornady is
a big strike against it. However, while the 68 Western did not get off to as big of a roaring start as the new seven
millimeter pr C, it does seem to have really found a home in a particular segment of the hunting community and the fact that it
outperforms the seven millimeter rim mag with a little less recoil. And the fact that it also fits in a short action rifle are important
advantages in its favor. We will see what the future holds. But I think the fact that the 68 Western is a true short action
cartridge will be what saves it in the long run more to follow with this though
Now, the last few years have been pretty interesting. We got the 1st 270 the original 270 Winchester back in 1925
The next one came along 18 years later in 1943 with the 270 Weatherby Magnum
The next one came 59 years after that in 2002, with the 270 Winchester Short magnum
it took 77 years to get the 1st 3277 caliber cartridges. Well
we have received three new, 277 caliber cartridges since just 2019 and the 277 Fury
the 27 Nosler and the 68 Western. Now this board diameter was never really quote unquote dead
Right. I mean, the 270 Winchester was gonna be around for a long time anyway
But like I mentioned, there didn't seem to be a lot of new innovation going on with it for a long time
Now that this board diameter seems to have risen from the dead figuratively
especially with the development of a, of a bunch of new high BC bullets
I would not be shocked to see more development along those lines in the future
Maybe we will, we will see continued tweaking of the legacy cartridges with faster rifling twist rates to use those higher BC bullets like the
165 grain cuon long range. Maybe we'll see some other new cartridges come along as well
Who knows? Maybe we'll see a, I don't know, a 27 creed more or a 27 pr C or something like that with a new
155 grain Eldx instead of 100 45 grain Eldx that Hornady uses in the regular 270 right now
So who knows? This could be a very exciting time to be a 270 board diameter fan in any case
Stay tuned as always and I will keep you appraised of any new developments that come along
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I've written on the best hunting cartridges. Now, I'm gonna turn it over to you
Have you hunted with any of these 270 caliber cartridges? If so, which one
what game have you successfully taken with them? And what ammo and rifle did you use in each case
Let me know by leaving a comment on this video right now and also feel free to leave a comment with requests for other cartridge
comparisons you'd like to see in the future. Thanks for watching. Have a great day and good hunting